Everything is Logistics
A podcast for the thinkers in freight. Everything is Logistics is hosted by Blythe Brumleve and we're telling the stories behind how your favorite stuff (and people!) get from point A to B.
Industry topics include freight, logistics, transportation, maritime, warehousing, intermodal, and trucking along with the intersection of technology and marketing within the industry.
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Everything is Logistics
How Florida East Coast Railway Keeps Freight Moving from Jacksonville to Miami
From the Keys to the coastlines, Florida’s logistics legacy runs on rails, and few know that better than Spencer Jury, Director of Domestic Intermodal at Florida East Coast Railway.
In this episode, recorded live at the Florida Supply Chain Summit, Spencer shares how FEC connects Florida’s freight economy, the company’s 1800s origins with Henry Flagler, and how technology and awareness are shaping the future of intermodal shipping.
He and Blythe discuss everything from hurricane-proof infrastructure to the modern rail fan community, keeping the Sunshine Express spirit alive.
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Welcome into another episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight. We are proudly presented by SPI logistics, and my name is Blythe Milligan. We are live on site at the Florida supply chain Summit here in my hometown of Jacksonville, Florida, and we have joining us today is Spencer jury, you are, what's your title? For us? I'm blanking on the title name. We're getting this off right.
Spencer Jury:I am the director of domestic Intermodal for the Florida
Blythe Milligan:and let's just jump right into it, because you have a long history in this industry. So tell us a little bit about like your background in the industry before you joined FEC.
Spencer Jury:Sure, like many here in Florida, I'm a transplant from the Chicago area, but I've been involved in supply chain since 2003 I've worked in number of different brokerages, warehousing, trucking, drayage, every avenue you can think of. In fact, I'd like to Blythe. I've gained probably far too much exposure than I should have, but it's been a really good journey. 2015 I kind of closed the loop with, I guess you could say supply chain management graduate degree, which really opened my eyes to a lot of everything that's out there and and now we're here in Florida, and I'm closing the loop, and I'm involved with the railroad now.
Blythe Milligan:So, so you went to school first, or you went to school after you started working in the
Spencer Jury:industry. I actually went after. Oh, interesting. So about 12 years after.
Blythe Milligan:So what made you want to go to school for so because typically it's either it's a family business or it's you went to school for it and got into the industry.
Spencer Jury:Well, I feel that I kind of hit that glass ceiling, if you will. And I felt there was so much more that you could grasp from supply chain. And ultimately, that degree really did open my eyes to what's out there, what's available, and everything, every inner working about it. So it was very enjoyable for me to do
Blythe Milligan:that's super interesting. Because, I mean, I've thought about going like, what would it have been like if I went to school for this industry? And my outsider opinion was, well, they're not going to teach you, you know, everything you need to know about present day and how to actually do the job of working in logistics. It's just maybe theoretical. But it sounds like you had a completely different but that my assumption is wrong.
Spencer Jury:Yeah. Well, I actually had a conversation with an individual last night regarding that, and there's benefits to both getting that kind of on site experience versus going to school first. Or, I guess, could say vice versa, but I would say either way, you put yourself in a favorable position if you're getting that additional knowledge before you even start really it's, it's just so vast you can go in so many different directions. So it's, it's it's
Blythe Milligan:better. It was beneficial, yes, to
Spencer Jury:each their own, right? It really depends on the individual. And I think
Blythe Milligan:too from, and I've said this before on the show, is that this industry is so interesting, because the more layers you peel back, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like I was telling you before we started recording that this morning, I was watching, like a historical video on how Florida, East Coast Railway got started. And it was, I think his name was John Flagler, who's Flagler University and st or not here in St Augustine, but nearby in St Augustine, he moved down to St Augustine with his wife because they wanted to have warmer weather, because she was a little sick, and so they wanted to come down from World War weather, but he found that there was no transportation options and not really a hotel, a luxury hotel for the rich and famous. And so he built both of
Spencer Jury:those things. That is absolutely correct. And he actually worked along Rockefeller, so he had a lot of capital, right? Yeah, but I talked last night again to another individual, if you really want to read a great book, to read a great book. And this goes for everyone out there, too. The last train of paradise talks about the actual building of the Florida East Coast Railroad because that that train was initially built to extend not only from Jacksonville to Miami, but all the way to Florida Keys, right? And if you've been to the keys before, you'll notice a lot of that infrastructure still sits there today, which is really, really cool.
Blythe Milligan:What happened to that? Because I remember driving over that bridge, but I didn't know. I just thought it was an old bridge, and they built a new, you know, sort of highway right next to it. So what happens to the old bridge? Is it maybe just for fishing, or
Spencer Jury:they just left it there? I mean, the infrastructure was, I don't even how to how to phrase this, but it was so ahead of its time back then that it hasn't moved. I mean, initially, that was all destroyed from a hurricane in the early 1900s and it's still there.
Blythe Milligan:And I heard that during that storm, when they shut down the Miami to keys corridor, that there was like two miles of the rail track that washed up onto shore in Florida, in the state of Florida, not just the
Spencer Jury:keys, yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of people lost their lives, and they believe that was a class five hurricane. Wow. It was before the system was in place, but it was pretty bad,
Blythe Milligan:wow. And so, I mean, to this day they haven't built that back up, because it's probably not worth it. Blythe, but let's talk a little bit about what is worth it from the Jacksonville to Miami corridor. So how does give us, I guess, sort of the overall view of, like, what kind of commodities are being used or being shipped, and Florida is also kind of famously like, inbound is great, but outbound is terrible. So how do you sort of balance that as a company standpoint,
Spencer Jury:great question ultimately. And I think you and I had spoke about that initially, but from Jacksonville to Miami, we have a lot of traffic. As you know, Florida consumes a significant amount of things. And honestly, Florida is not biased. We will take on any product. FEC will right, but we we very much understand the concept and that model that anything coming southbound, you're going to be stuck. So with us, when you're running southbound, we know we're going to bring you right back northbound, right? So we kind of work that into our rating structure to help kind of drive a little bit additional value and allow people to understand that we don't want you to get stuck down here. It's already problematic enough. So if we can put you on a position to come down south and turn you around, come right back,
Blythe Milligan:and so when you say, like, turn around and come right back, you're talking strictly on rail, only rail, maybe no three PL partners or truck partners, or anything like that.
Spencer Jury:100% full utilization of the FEC assets in our training
Blythe Milligan:and for intermodal as a whole, is kind of having a moment right now. We just recently had Ann Rinke on the show. She's the president and CEO of IANA. And, you know, that was sort of my, I guess, intro into learning more about intermodal. Because I say that because I come from an asset based trucking background, and, you know, early days in my career, it was that was the only world I knew we had an intermodal department, but they were like in the back of the building. And, you know, nobody really even talked to them, because it was just a small department in the back of the building. But now it feels like intermodal has really come to the forefront, especially in a challenging freight market. Why do you think more companies are starting to use the strategic advantage of intermodal.
Spencer Jury:Trucking has been around for such a long time, right? And it's been a backbone of the country forever, right? But I think providing an additional option regarding a modality such as intermodal is always beneficial. I think there's, yeah, unfortunately, we're steering our market in a way that we need a product tomorrow, but there are still those products that don't necessarily need to be there tomorrow, that can be utilized and be there a day later, and that's where intermodal really comes into play. Ultimately, it's transit that's really the difference between truckload and intermodal is just transit. So for Florida, East Coast Railway might take six hours for you to drive a truck from Jacksonville to Miami, traffic willing? Right? For our trains, it takes eight to 10 hours. No, it's very similar, right? But when you start to extend beyond our network and start to move in, say, Chicago to Miami, it's gonna be a little different. Why is that? For a truck, it's probably two to three days, three, let's say three days for train. It's going to be three to five. So again, it's we're similar, but we're not but again, when you talk about sustainability as well, we're definitely at the forefront, right? It is significantly much more fuel efficient to push anything on a train, as opposed to a truck, and we can handle that much more. We can take way more than a truck.
Blythe Milligan:There's an additional, like, I guess, sort of fan component, because the one of the videos that I was watching this morning, there's some avid I mean, I knew there were, like, train fans, yeah, but they're like, trained fanatics. This one channel I was watching, he was very adamant on catching certain kind because you have the, I'm gonna mess up, I'm gonna butcher these terms, but like the front, the front, I guess, not cabin, or the front part of the train, and then you have all of the different, I guess, different painted containers that are that follow behind it, and some are, like, specially designed and specially painted. And there's some people that are, are happy with a, you know, a rebrand that's going on right now within the FEC. And then some people are not happy because they like the old color scheme better, and they try to capture on camera, you know, these different train cars that are all painted different colors. And I just, I found I that was another layer of logistics that I had no idea existed. I
Spencer Jury:have to be honest, I actually really enjoy when we kind of changed the branding and change how things were like. If you look at our trains in the 60s and 70s, they were this yellow, orange kind of color. It was actually very, very interesting because we were like, I believe the sunshine Express or something like that, which made sense. It was very unique. It was different. We moved in a different direction. It almost matches my vest now, and it's kind of a green color. It's actually very beautiful, but I kind of like that old sense, and we've got a couple of those engines that are still painted that way, yeah, but it's, it's really neat, because not only us, the class ones, would do that celebration of you. The military, we have a breast cancer awareness train. That's the one I saw. Yeah, I believe I had that picture on my LinkedIn for a while, and that's probably one of my favorite trains. Got that pink shade in it, and Susan G Coleman on the side. It's very
Blythe Milligan:How often does that happen that you're deciding, you know, we're going to paint a new train? Yeah.
Spencer Jury:Again, it really depends on when and who they'll make that call and say, Okay, let's make it. Let's make an adjustment. We'll change the color this week.
Blythe Milligan:It's very similar to like a truck wrapping where a lot of folks will will either invest in or not invest in it at all.
Spencer Jury:Absolutely perfect example. Yes. So
Blythe Milligan:let's get back to a little bit of what, what kind of domestic freight that FEC is hauling, is hauling even the correct freight
Spencer Jury:is perfect. Again, FEC, we really don't have an issue with anything. We ship freight of all kinds. It really doesn't matter. We won't bring in some certain hazmat, I guess you could say items. But in the grand scheme, what will bring about? Anything from, I don't know, retail product, car load, to whatever you have, bring it to us, where we'll entertain
Blythe Milligan:it. What about from, I guess, the shippers perspective, what do you think are some misconceptions about using intermodal, or maybe some of the advantages of using intermodal versus some other modes of transportation?
Spencer Jury:Oh, that's a great question. Well, let's use an example for a truck. A truck will come in, they'll get loaded, they'll leave, they'll deliver. When you're in a train, let's use Jacksonville to Miami as that example. Driver goes in, gets loaded in Jacksonville's proceeds. South Miami delivers on a train. We have a driver that goes in with a container. He breaks it in with a container in a chassis. He brings it to our rail ramp. We lift it off the train or off the chassis, and put it on the train, right? So there's one element that doesn't take place on a truck versus a train perspective, we have to lift that whole container up, and that causes movement that can cause a problem, gets on the train, proceeds out. That's the same as a truck. We do the same thing. When it gets to destination, it's lifted off, put on a chassis. We go to there. So I think a lot of people get concerned that when they're operating, say, with someone such as us, that probably get grabbed and gets stacked in a yard somewhere and just sits there. It's not necessarily the case. We're a non stacked facility. So anything that comes in our train, it's immediately put to wheels. And I'll be honest, I don't think our containers are lifted more than six to seven feet off the train, and that's it.
Blythe Milligan:Is that importance, like, how important is it to not be lifted so high or above a certain height,
Spencer Jury:less touch is going to cause less shaking, right? So by no means do I mean to bad mouth my counterparts across the country. But, and again, me being from Chicago, there's a huge, vast network of rail terminals every place you can go to, right? So those containers are lifted multiple times, move from different areas, touched here, touched there, touched there, to shift and position them appropriately. That truck won't be here for two days. We're going to put it here. They'll come back and get it later and put it back again right when it gets off our train. It's lifted, put on a chassis right away and ready to go for that drayage provider to actually
Blythe Milligan:deliver. So I never even knew that that was a concept that shippers should be concerned about. Because I would imagine, the more times you use it or move it, the more times the potential to get damaged, or, you know, kind of things rustle around, is that mainly the concerns that were, I believe so, or unknown concerns that some shippers
Spencer Jury:have agreed and again, part of that is that, and then the transit are probably my two big points. And then finally, I would say cost, right? Everyone's going to be reevaluating their cost. I will tell you right now, Florida, East Coast can be more competitive than truckload into Florida. Bottom line
Blythe Milligan:and now is it only the rail. Railway is only from Jacksonville to Miami, or are there other like sort of so
Spencer Jury:our local network is 351 miles from Jacksonville to Maya, but we're partnered with the class ones in CSX, ns on the eastern half. We work with the West Coast providers to some in Canada. And then we are actually owned by Grupo Mexico. So they actually own faromex, which is the largest rail in Mexico.
Blythe Milligan:Oh, interesting. I did hear about that and how they they recently became, you know, the owners, or, I guess, the holders of FEC. So that's interesting, that Mexico would be expanding in that regard. Is Near shoring. How is near shoring affecting? Well, I think
Spencer Jury:we had, you had brought up Ayanna. A lot of our feral Mex team was with us, and a lot of individuals were steering towards them. They wanted to have those discussions with the Mexico team, because I think that's of great importance. A lot of people are starting to find that it's a big opportunity in and out of Mexico. So we're kind of scratching the surface there, but I think as we proceed, we're going to see more and more opportunities out of Mexico.
Blythe Milligan:Now, what are some other maybe news stories under the. Radar issues that are going on, or maybe challenges that are going on within rail, specifically when it comes to Florida, is there, is there anything that maybe shippers should be aware of and whenever they're planning what their transportation options could be?
Spencer Jury:Yeah, I can't really think of anything offhand for us. I know throughout the entirety of the domestic US, specifically the west coast and some parts of Chicago, people are finding that theft is a theft is a big problem right now, but the industry is taking a lot of steps to really curb that. A number of different infrastructure changes things with how the trains operate and move, because you'll see a lot of will come in and stop, and that'll give, say, a thief, an opportunity to come in and grab what they can and open a container, just start
Blythe Milligan:throwing boxes. That's what's happening in California, where there's one just central location, where all you see is the railroad tracks and a bunch of boxes scattered everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Does that happen in Florida
Spencer Jury:too? No. We're very we're no crime at all. We're consistently moving. It's very difficult for you to kind of do that. We have, we have great security. And again, kind of, like we talked about ours, ours never sit. It's a grab, pull, and it's out right? So there's very little
Blythe Milligan:strategic advantage in that regard, because you don't have, like, I think I talked about this with Anne, like, what does it look like nowadays? It's like bandits running on horses, and you never know. Or maybe in Florida, you know, we just got a new or, I don't know if a lot of folks are aware, but we actually have buffalo in the state that they have released in the middle of the state, I'm sorry, right here in
Spencer Jury:Central Florida. Oh my gosh, I would never think that.
Blythe Milligan:Yeah, so they're trying to sort of bring it back, or bring the species back in different pockets all over the country, and Central Florida is one of those. That's great. So you could have maybe some bandits that are running around on bison or something, trying to get on
Spencer Jury:top of a tree. That is crazy Interesting.
Unknown:Yeah, all right, well, let's talk about what does,
Blythe Milligan:what does even growth look like? Is it, can you add more rail lines? Is that even a thing that you guys want to do? What does I guess expansion look like? Or is that even in the cards, or is it just raising awareness for more customers to know about the advantages of shipping on intermodal? I
Spencer Jury:will tell you. First and foremost, our team is directly focused on growth. And I guess you could say, How do I get you involved with the FEC? Right? There's so many people that don't really know about us, but we've been here since the late 1800s How do you not right? So that's been kind of initiative that we've worked on is really generating some positive feedback with us. And hey, come use us. We're here. So besides that, in regards to an expansion perspective, we have a lot of invested in capital regarding our current rail heads or terminals, we're finding that we've installed some automated gate systems in some spaces that we didn't have before, which is allowing that much more quick of in and out with a lot of the drayage providers. By December 2026 we have a ramp in Fort Pierce Florida that will be a huge expansion out west. So we're really excited about that. That's going to be a really big, big thing for us. So that should drive a lot of opportunities into that area.
Blythe Milligan:Now, as you mentioned, with the your company being around since the 1800s I imagine that you know, maybe some tech enhancements are being made. You mentioned earlier about fraud or fraud prevention. What kind of what does the tech scene look like at a modern day railroad?
Spencer Jury:I'll be honest, in my short time, in my short time in this industry, I feel that intermodal could be greatly enhanced technologically. Now our team is without me over sharing. We have a really good road map out there on what we want to do in the upcoming years in regards to changes and enhancements within our railroad, not only here, but in Mexico too. So it's been,
Blythe Milligan:I'll leave it at that, yeah. So I imagine, I mean, there's the big buzz words that have existed, I think for the last, like, since I've been covering this industry for five years, there's visibility. Most recently, AI, are these kinds of technologies also impacting rail too?
Spencer Jury:100% really, yes. So if you think about the truck industry, when I load something, I want to know where that truck is every time, right? So we leverage GPS and everything like that. We do the same on the rail. We have sensors along the entirety of the tracks. When that train is running, when that train pops up, it's going to show you. We have our own tool, which is that PCR Connect, which customers can get direct access to and they see everything. And then once it delivers, you have the paperwork and all that's uploaded in the system.
Blythe Milligan:And so when you are working with customers, are you working directly with shippers? Are you working with brokerage partners, carrier partners? Kind of all of the above. All the above. Interesting. So, what does a what does the onboarding process look like if I'm say, a brokerage versus a shipper? What does that onboarding process look like?
Spencer Jury:Something I'm also working on because. Okay, I think it go. Could move a little quicker. But ultimately, we run, if I were to get in the weeds, we run a quick credit check. We kind of give you the intermodal service directory, anything you might have. We kind of tie the knots and put everything together. Cross the T's, dot the i's, and then off we go. We have an operations team. We have a quick onboarding discussion, a quick introduction. Here's who you're dealing with. Here's who you deal with on this side. And then I that, or my team and I were there to kind of help
Blythe Milligan:in the middle. So it sounds very similar to trucking
Spencer Jury:it is. It really is. It's quick and painless, right?
Blythe Milligan:Well, I think that that was, Oh, I do have a couple more lightning round questions. Oh, go for it. Okay, what's the most underrated Florida intermodal? Fact,
Unknown:not really lightning round, but that's a really good question.
Spencer Jury:I would probably say that transit we talked about. I don't think a lot of people grasp that concept. We can, we can literally move a container from Jacksonville to Miami, make a delivery and get it back. Delivery, and get it back to Jacksonville in 24
Blythe Milligan:hours. That's wild. And I don't think a lot of people know that. I didn't know that, and I'm born and raised in Florida.
Spencer Jury:I mean, there's opportunity there, right? If you're a trucker, think about that. You're gonna go south deliver and maybe hang out for the day. Are they gonna find me a load? Am I gonna find a load to do that. We'll take it, deliver it, and bring it back to you in Jackson, and we can put it on a trailer too. It doesn't have to be a container. We run trailer on flat car, meaning, if you have it on trailer, we'll put that whole trailer on the train, ship it down, we'll deliver it for you as we have our own drayage, and bring it back.
Blythe Milligan:Amazing. All right, what's, what's one metric you watch daily?
Spencer Jury:Oh, definitely, volume. I'm looking at
Blythe Milligan:it every day. And is it trending in a good direction? Stable direction. How about
Spencer Jury:stability right now, but
Unknown:we'll see. Yeah, I think everybody is this was supposed to be a good year, right? It was supposed to be a good year,
Blythe Milligan:less chaotic, more certainty. Here we are.
Spencer Jury:I think you're talking right on those two important points, chaotic and certainty.
Blythe Milligan:But it does sound like with intermodal, especially from the Jacksonville to Miami corridor, that that stability, at least from a customer standpoint, if I know I'm I'm looking to save money, and I'm looking for reliability. And still, a lot of the tech advancements that you see in trucking, such as visibility, sounds like rail is crossing off of all of those different checklists.
Spencer Jury:We can throw sustainability in there too. Now we throw us three off the buff at least. Yes, sir.
Blythe Milligan:All right. What is something that you think is important to mention that we haven't already talked about, when it comes to FEC
Spencer Jury:again, just generating awareness of our organization. I'm going to continue to push that over.
Blythe Milligan:That's what Anne said, too, is that it's, it's, there's been a little bit of a, I guess, an awareness marketing problem with rail, and how she that's her goal, is to expand the knowledge base of rail to the greater logistics
Spencer Jury:community. I, and I wholeheartedly agree with that, right? We need to help people understand that there is this mode out here that can help
Blythe Milligan:you. Why do you think that it's been a little bit of a, I guess, a knowledge gap? Well,
Spencer Jury:I think people grow greatly content in this industry, right? If it's working, why touch it? And that's me. Personally, I've never operated that way. I want to try to find a new and better way, a more efficient way, a less costly way. And everyone should be looking at that, and intermodal can provide that just got to allow us the opportunity. And a second piece, I think people are a little afraid of intermodal because they're they're not really sure how it works. I'll be happy to walk through that with
Blythe Milligan:you. Awesome. Well, Spencer, I think that that is a perfect place to land it. And for folks who may want to learn more about working with you, working with FEC, where can I send them?
Spencer Jury:Oh, flirty east coast, you can find us on Google. Just type it in. It's FEC, R, W, y.com, and then if you want, you can find me on LinkedIn. Spencer jury, flirty east coast. Nice, big train in the banner,
Blythe Milligan:which kind of train is it? The Breast Cancer Awareness?
Spencer Jury:I actually think we had a professional shoot done, and I took one of those. Oh, nice. It was too nice. I couldn't pass
Blythe Milligan:it. Well, I mean, that's part of building the awareness of intermodal, is taking the photos and marketing the uniqueness of the industry, and so are this mode of the industry. So Spencer, thank you so much.
Spencer Jury:Thank you for the opportunity. This was great. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right. Thank
Blythe Brumleve:you. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of everything is logistics, where we talk all things supply chain for the thinkers in freight, if you liked this episode, there's plenty more where that came from. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss a conversation. The show is also available in video format over on YouTube, just by searching everything as logistics. And if you're working in freight logistics or supply chain marketing, check out my company, digital dispatch. We help you build. Build smarter websites and marketing systems that actually drive results, not just vanity metrics. Additionally, if you're trying to find the right freight tech tools or partners without getting buried in buzzwords, head on over to cargorex.io where we're building the largest database of logistics services and solutions, all the links you need are in the show notes. I'll catch you in the next episode in go jags. You gojags.
