From Engineer to Freight Agency Owner

Angelo Fruci grew up as a cousin to fellow logistics podcaster Chris Jolly. But it would take years later for the two to team up to start their own freight agency with none other than our favorite, SPI Logistics. Learn about that journey from engineer to freight agency owner while also picking up some sales and marketing tips along the way.

LINKS:

• Angelo's LinkedIn
• SPI's Freight Agent Guide
• SPI’s Secrets to Building a Successful Freight Agent Career

WATCH THE FULL EPISODE HERE

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Chapters

• 2:01 Medical Device Engineer to Freight Logistics
• 8:47 Building Systems and SOPs
• 17:19 Learning the Industry Through Mentorship
• 23:50 Site Visit Strategy and Success
• 34:25 The SPI Partnership Experience

Transcript

Unknown: 0:01

All right,

Blythe Brumleve: 0:04

321, welcome into another episode of everything. It's logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight. I'm your host, Blythe Milligan, and we are proudly presented by SPI logistics. And on today's show, we have the co founder of freight coach logistics, and Angelo Fruci, I always said, Anthony,

Unknown: 0:23

I'm sorry,

Blythe Brumleve: 0:25

does it really? Yeah, well, we're going to be talking about how, you know, in our pre show document, which you filled out, which I have every guest fill out, kind of gives me a little bit of background insight, before we have the, you know, a conversation between the two of us. And in that document, you talk about leaving corporate America and the challenges and the rewards and all that good stuff of leaving corporate America to join the freight industry. But I find it fascinating that you did it in probably the worst time in freight history, during a recession, during the, you know, the challenges of a down market. But I also think that that's why you know a lot of folks will find value in this episode, is that you know you in a time where folks are questioning why they're even working in this industry, you, alongside your business partner, Chris jolly, who is friend of the show, podcast friend, of course, too. You guys decide to open a business, and you're killing it. So

Unknown: 1:20

welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Blythe Brumleve: 1:23

Okay, so let's talk about that little bit of a pre I want to know what you were doing in work before you decide what was your corporate America job that you were doing beforehand? Yeah,

Angelo Fruci: 1:32

so I was a process engineer for medical devices. There's a huge market up here in Minnesota. So, you know, I started working on leads and pacemakers, went into catheters and kind of stayed in that vascular market. My role as a process engineer was an R and D engineer. Would make 10 products, and then I would figure out how to make 10,000 and then validate it, make sure everything that got out was good, and get the line ready for manufacturing, and then pass it along to the manufacturing team. Oh, wow.

Blythe Brumleve: 2:01

So you had the whole, like, sort of shipper side of things, you know, kind of that shipper point of view worked out prior. Well, that's kind

Unknown: 2:07

of how we had talked about it, I mean, so, I mean, this was all like a Mac mechanical assemblies, but it was that kind of mindset that Chris was, like, I've got an idea, and you know, how to replicate it again and again and again. And that kind of started the conversation years before this had happened. And, yeah, it was interesting. So we've been talking about it. And then I went to a startup, and it's funny, like the Lord works in different ways. I told myself that was gonna be my last w2 and that's what happened, not in the plan that I wanted. It didn't work out with the startup, which is all right, but yeah, I was driving home, and I was like, Chris, are we doing this? I'll preface this. I had a two month old our first one. I was like, are we doing this? And he's like, timing is not good. I'm like, he goes, let's do it. And then we obviously put a lot of planning in, because that's what I do with the business plans and all that nerd stuff. And so, yeah, we put it together. I asked my wife if she trusted me, and she said, yep. And so we went for it.

Blythe Brumleve: 3:02

Wow. So two month old wife has said, Okay, you that that's good, that that is a very trusting wife,

Unknown: 3:10

yeah, very trusting especially. I mean, I have good engineering corporate salary. I had my dream job, Dream title, all that stuff, but, yeah, I really wanted, I'd always wanted to do it. I done a small startup years ago, like a Kickstarter deal that we kind of, you know, another friend, dipped our toe in. Learned a lot there. But like, I'd always wanted that, and this was, I was just really, kind of having a good point, like I could call five friends, get a few interviews, probably get another job, and then, you know, keep doing the products again and again. And it was fun. I enjoyed it. But, yeah, I just really wanted to do it on my own. And I mean, not to plug him too much. I don't want to build his ego up. But watching Chris build a successful business, I was like, if you can do it, I can do it. I've known him my whole life, um, and it was just like a chance to work with him. And you know, we talked about our relationship, what we like to do. And the good news is, our brains, our values, are aligned, but our brains work in completely different ways, so we really haven't overlapped on that, and it's just been, it's been a great experience since, well, I definitely

Blythe Brumleve: 4:09

want to get into the relationship with Chris, because Chris is a, you know, a long time friend of the show. We got into freight podcasting around the same time, and so he's been a really big confident or confidant in in helping take this show and really go fully independent back in January 2023, and so it's been, it's been fantastic. And, you know, I took a lot of advice from him. And before we talk about Chris, I did have one curious question, why? Why is because you're based in Minnesota. So where? Why is, I guess, the medical device. Why is that such a big thing in Minnesota?

Unknown: 4:45

Yeah, Medtronic and Earl Bucha and those guys. Well, he started Medtronic, but they got started up here with the first pacemaker. And that spawned into, you know, all these companies and, you know, kind of like looking at, like, Silicon Valley, you know, a couple. I started there. And then everyone who went there was like, Oh, I have an idea. So there's really just, I mean, between, like, the pacemaker cardiac world and valves to the cardiovascular shirt, people just spawned off in the technology and infrastructures up here. So I mean, everything from big Fortune 100 companies all the way down to startups in the medical devices all around here, and the suppliers are in the area, and, yeah, it's just a big, it's kind of just a medical device hub, lot of research at the Mayo Clinic and things like that. So it, i Besides, just how, like, probably Medtronic and them getting started here, that's probably the biggest thing that's

Blythe Brumleve: 5:36

super interesting. Because, I mean, we're, we've done a few episodes, you know, with the big promise of bringing manufacturing back to the United States, and what does that look like? And I would have never have assumed that Minnesota would kind of be a, you know, a US hub for medical devices. So that's super interesting to know. Thank you for sharing that. So let's get into you mentioned knowing Chris your whole life. I imagine you. You guys grew up together. Give us the back story on on how you you guys became friends. Yeah. So

Unknown: 6:04

he's my cousin on our mom's side, so literally, yeah, since we were in diapers, and you know, he's my sister's, like all of our siblings are on the same age, so us and another set of cousins would basically rotate houses, especially in the summer, for the weekends. And, yeah, so we, it's funny, I always well, we used to fight a little bit we were younger, and then we got old enough to hurt each other, and they were like, Hey, should we stop doing this? And then at some point in life, we're like, hey, let's do a business together. But it was fun. You know, grew up together, especially, like, his property was awesome. And then we go up to our cabin all the time and like, fish and stuff like that up there. So got to know him a lot, and then stayed in contact all through college. When I went down to Iowa State, and kind of after college, we hung out. We get together on weekends and stuff like that. And then when he moved out to Reno, I was like, I'm going to miss you, but I'm excited for you to go and see what happens. It's kind of been we've just stayed in contact the whole time, and you know, on our careers and life and things like that. And I said we'd always kind of talked about doing it, and then it was one of those, like, and I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and they're like, the timing wasn't good, but some life event happened that wasn't predictable, and it was like, now or like, either go or stay in the life you were doing, and we decided to go,

Blythe Brumleve: 7:20

and that was your first child. I'm assuming you, I'm not, I'm not sure how many children you have, but you said you had a two month old at home. And so I would imagine that would be the, I guess, the motivation of being like, let's do this. And because I do feel like entrepreneurial journey, you have to have that motivation of, where your net, where is your next check going to come from? And maybe am I, if I'm just kind of putting two things together here that, you know, with the wife trusting you and the two month old at home, that that was all the motivation that you needed.

Unknown: 7:54

Yeah? I mean, that's definitely a big motivation. It wasn't, I mean, the finance has to happen because, like, we like this house, but it was more like, you know, what do I want to be? Like, what do I like having a daughter first, like, and all of a sudden holding her, it's like, you know, who do I want her to bring home? And it's like, I need to be that person. And like, what do I want in life? And I said I had a like, it was a great life, great career, great people around me, but I just wanted to do more. And it was, this was just the chance and the time to just go for it and see what I can really do with myself. Knowing that there's going to be, it's going to be sacrifices and some hardships, but also, like, when they get older, they'll be able to see someone living the life that they want to live, and whether they want to go on logistics or not. That's like, well beyond it. But I want them to be able to see, hey, you can go after and do what you want and change lives and make the world a better place. And that was really, like, the big motivation behind it as well. And

Blythe Brumleve: 8:47

so when you're talking with Chris, like, how does that? How does that? I guess conversation get started. I know you had talked about it, you know, here and there, like, growing up together. I'm not sure did you ever Did you always know that it was going to be a freight related business?

Unknown: 9:02

No, we had no idea. So we didn't start talking about doing a business until we were adults. I mean, he went into logistics when he moved out to Reno and loved it. And really, like really, did well for himself there. I was doing very well in engineering. So we were having fun doing that. We'd meet up in different cities and things like that, living that life in the 20s. And it was really, I think, when he started the podcast, and it started going also like, that was when we both kind of realized, like, hey, we can do this. Like, it's possible to go create something without a w2 paycheck bi weekly. He's like, it's hard. And I'm not going to say it was easy for him, because I remember those conversations, but it was just like, we can, we can do this. And that was when we started to put it down. You know, he was talking about success that other people were having, especially with his help. So he believed in his system strongly and in the fray, not just the podcast. And it was it started seeing that belief. And that was kind of what we touched on earlier. Was like, Hey, I've got a good system. I can help people, and then, like, we could do and then my way to systemize, and I love operations, accounting, beans and things like that. He always rips on me for having an MBA. And I'm like, that's fine. You don't need one. I got it. But like, and I mean, we'll get to that a point like, I need someone like that as much as I think I'm this big visionary, and I have a vision he is that right, and then I can be that executing hand, and we're both executing now, because you have to, but, yeah, it was just we started actually putting it together. Like, hey, what would this look like? What numbers? And I wrote out a super detailed business plan, and it's like, all right, this isn't just a hobby, but the real motivation that was behind him was like, you know, carriers getting mistreated, smaller customers getting mistreated, employees going through the ringer on things. He's like, we can build something really good that helps a lot of lives. And that was the big motivation, that was kind of what sold me on. It not just the size of the industry, but just like, alright, if we're going to do this, because we both had highs and lows throughout our careers, and it's like, what can we do to make a place that people want to be at? And that was the that was probably the bigger motivation than what the actual thing was, because I'm a builder, and I love systems and putting that together, and I love freight, but like, it's really that building and the why, and that was, that was when it got serious. So we, we didn't put a business plan together, but we kind of had a feeling like, at some point this is going to happen.

Blythe Brumleve: 11:28

So what were those first, I guess, systems that you established. Because, I mean, Chris comes from logistics, and so I would imagine that he would have known, you know, a lot of maybe the how to move freight, of course. But then running business is a whole other layer on top of, you know, just being a broker inside of a big brokerage. So that's typically that the funnel system of folks who come into this industry, they come fresh out of college, they become a freight broker. They have to do a million cold calls, and then maybe one day they're successful enough that they can start up a freight agency. But you guys kind of got to skip that. Bs, well, Chris was a freight broker for

Unknown: 12:03

years. Yeah, he did. He did that, yes.

Blythe Brumleve: 12:06

So he learned that, you know, sort of that side of things. So I'm always curious about especially people who come from other, I guess, industries and then come into logistics. What were some of those systems that you established first that made sense, because I would imagine that some systems maybe didn't make a whole lot of sense, but maybe you thought they did. What were some of those first ones that were, that were really crucial? It

Unknown: 12:32

was, yeah, so the first ones, and I learned a lot from the initial Kickstarter I did, and then grad school, it was, it was making sure we had a good legal team in place, and I'm lucky to have a good network up here getting everything planned. Because when, when you're in peacetime or the honeymoon phase of the business, everything's good. But I knew I wanted a rock solid life, events, things happen, structure, so getting everything legally structured and the operational agreements strong for both sides. I was I go to the Boundary Waters a lot, and it's the weather can get you and I always say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. So it was getting those kind of things in place, getting the banking structure set up, figuring out what kind of accounting principles we wanted to follow, so all that back office stuff, and then freight related again, one of the reasons I went into this because I believed in Chris' system. I didn't know his system yet, other you know, from the outside looking in. But it was like, All right, you've got a lot of great words. How do we get that to the first employee and then to the 10th employee and then to the 100th employee? So I actually wrote, I forget the final count right now, but we're at about like 48 SOPs. So training documents that are, yeah. So in my medical device world, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote quality systems for companies and validated things and checked all the systems. So we went for about two or three months, and we were doing sales at the time, but you know, he would do a recording, and then I would document everything he said. So we put together a sales training program for when we do start hiring, and it was really getting down, like, what are you doing that's successful? So we can make sure that as we grow and scale, we have that rather than, you know all that, let's say, one day, you know we have, we grow super fast, one day we land five major accounts, and we need to hire. What do we do? Do we just hire 10 people and see who sticks? Or do we bring them in and say, here's how we're going to treat our employees or our customers, here's how we're going to treat our carriers. Here's how we're going to vet our carriers. Here's the questions we're going to ask to our shippers. We wanted to have all that documented so that that was there, not just like, hey, I hope you figure it out. So that was a big thing I put in place, I think, for this and that will like, Was that too early, maybe, but we did it during that time when we were in that early phase. So now we have that structure. It'll change, you know, five, 610, times, but we have the baseline figured out. And that was one thing I wanted to have in place, was like, All right, let's take your system and put it into a platform that we can use.

Blythe Brumleve: 14:54

Yeah, that's super interesting, because I don't I've worked at a couple logistics companies. I don't know that. We ever had an SOP for much, and they were around for a long time. No, they went out of business, though. Yes, you could

Unknown: 15:13

it. It's, I mean, people like, I look at them too. I mean, you learn on the job, and that's you're not going to replace that. But like, for me, especially, going in. So how we structured it? You know, Chris is the sales rep, or the account manager, sales rep, and then I'd be the apps. You know, me being in the industry, what do I if a carrier calls me and says, I want to book a load for this rate and we agree on it, how do I know if they're good? Like, I didn't know that stuff, right? So it was really good for me. Say, Okay, what zip code are you getting? Empty and how long is your trailer? What can you scale? You know, running the MCS, how to look for it, checking in with the driver. I never would have thought of that right coming from the outside, doing this like, yeah, what is the dispatcher telling me, confirm everything with the driver and look for any issues there. So those are the kind of things that we want to make sure as we hire new people that are aware and can start doing that from day one, and then they figure out how to do it and get efficient at it. But like, yeah, I don't want to just throw someone and say, All right, go find a truck and, like, make sure they're right. And I don't, I mean, if we have a big or when we have a big account, like, I don't want that to happen and send the right equipment, or get those no shows that don't get recovered. Like, those are the type of things that we want to be able to train on from the start and and we're acting it too. And I update these things as we go, as we develop our sales system. So we so we can document here's what's working, and then we'll transfer it along. But yeah, we wanted to give people that baseline and that time and that we care into that. So that was one of the big things we structured in the beginning.

Blythe Brumleve: 16:41

And so as you're, as you're, you know, developing the these standard operating procedures, and you're learning about the industry and bringing all of your expertise into it, how are you, I guess, sort of coordinating with Chris on a daily basis, because you're in Minnesota, he's in Reno so how are you kind of knowing even what to ask?

Unknown: 17:01

Would you mean ask, like the carriers, or, yeah,

Blythe Brumleve: 17:04

so if you it's almost like you don't know what you don't know. And so if you're on the phone, maybe talking to a carrier, or, you know, a shipper, how do you know what? Or, how did you know what to ask? Was it just simply based on those early conversations with Chris and going through those SOPs?

Unknown: 17:20

Absolutely it was. And I made mistakes. It wasn't like, these SOPs. I was like, Oh, got it right. But I like, I had those SOPs up when I was doing it. And even today, he'll ask, like, Hey, did you get the exact width of the thing? Or, like, what did you get? And I still am learning that. I mean, it's been a couple years now, so I'm strong at it, or stronger. But yeah, it was, I mean, in the beginning there was a lot of hand holding, and that is part of, like, how are we going to train too, like, do we just throw them off, or do they have a mentor that's watching over their shoulders? And how do we transition with accounts and new people? But yeah, it was a lot of hand holding in the beginning, and then after about, you know, 1520 loads, it's like, alright, I feel pretty good with this. And then we've grown went from there. So yeah, a lot of hand holding the beginning. I mean, with Zoom being a big thing coming out of COVID, it was pretty easy and quick calls. And, yeah, it was, I mean, we and, like, as far as we coordinate, like, he's got his show and a couple other things. So we just, we're just very open. I'm looking at my phone for no reason. Like, just text each other. Like, for this Hank I'm going to be on this call from two to three, which means I'm not looking at my emails right now, so keep an eye out, right? And he'll do the same thing if he's got to go do a site visit or something like that. I'm very aware of what he's doing, so I will clear whatever I need to do so I'm at my computer. I mean, I can still do other stuff, but like we just make sure that we're always active for when our customers reach out. And

Blythe Brumleve: 18:38

so as you're so you build out these SOPs, but you also are in a very unique situation where you have that you know, this monster of a quiet partner and SPI that is helping you as well, because SPI doesn't do this very frequently, but they partnered with you guys with no book of business. And so it was up to you guys to build that book of business. Tell it. Tell me how that went.

Unknown: 19:06

Well, very thankful for SPI. They've been awesome. And, like, they're just a great company to work with, right? It basically, I mean, it would have been wild if we had to get a loan and get our own TMS and get a line of, like, all that stuff would have been wild. So working with them has just been a blessing, and the service, but yeah, as far as, I mean, the fish didn't jump into the boat, is what I learned. But yeah, it was a big, you know, trying to make sure I kind of get into the question it was, it was get in and go and just start calling. And, you know, we've learned along the way, like we now do sales calls and not emails and things like that. So it was just really growing, but it was a quick learning that, hey, both of us are in sales, and sales is gonna be a part of our life for a long time, if not for the rest of this journey. And see, I just pushing and growing and trying to introduce ourselves and really getting that belief in you, and that's an interesting. One is like, I knew the system was good from what Chris had said, but I hadn't lived it yet. Now that we've still got our customers from like, our first three customers that we ever worked with, and we still work with them, and we like they still like us that meet, that's the proof of concept. So now, like today, I did five site visits here in the Twin Cities. I feel good doing that if we're a fit, if they're just a pure LTL shipper. Like, hey, great to meet you if you ever need anything dedicated. Like, here's my card. But otherwise, you know, have a good day. But now I know, like, when I go to a billing material supplier, like, we know flatbed. We know how to protect it, we know how to send in the right equipment. Like, because I've done it hundreds of times now. So it just feels good to have that belief, but it was really getting that belief and the imposter syndrome in the beginning, right? Like, if someone asked, what I do for a living at a party, I'm like, how am I engineer? Am I logistics guy? Like, have I earned being a logistics guy, right? So yeah,

Blythe Brumleve: 20:52

I think you kind of need both of those skills. I think you need the engineering mindset in order to work in logistics as well. And to your earlier point. You know you and you and Chris have a really good, it sounds like a really good yin yang kind of perspective that that brings both of those perspectives together for sure, for sure. And so with you mentioning site visits, because Chris had had a LinkedIn post a while back that I just loved seeing, and he talked about the power of not only cold calling, because I think a lot of folks, especially freight brokers, they use just cold email, and they'll just blast a million emails out and just pray for the best. And with what Chris is talking he's always, you know, preached about the value of cold calling and just getting your reps in, but then he's also preaching about the value of site visits. And so it sounds like you're doing the same thing in a different state, which is, it sounds pretty cool, absolutely.

Unknown: 21:44

And to be honest, like we tried the emails for a while, and we're like, this isn't working. So yeah, I forget he came up to forget why he came up. It doesn't matter, but he was here, and I had driven just north of me up this street, and I saw, like, flatbeds in a yard, and like, lumber. I was like, God, we should go after them. And we were kind of like, Hey, should we call them and see if we could stop by rather than just go in? And they were all well, all of them said, Sure. And then one of us called us back and said they were good. So like, alright, we won't stop in. Um, but yeah, it was kind of like it was, it was a great experience. And you know, you stop in, you shake a hand, pass the business card, get one, and in five minutes, I've seen physically, what their stuff looks like. I've asked them about, you know, straps versus chains and all those details. I know the weights, I know their lanes, and they know who I am. And it was just a great experience. And I found I've been fine. I've actually, I've got a pretty high mark of how many I try to get to a week, but I've loved the experience, like the five I had today. I talked to a founder of a franchisee likely will not be a fit, because they're gonna they're doing a different type of shipping than us, but had a great conversation with him, and then three of the visits I made were great conversations. And it's a little seasonal, but it was just, it's nice to meet in person. And I haven't, I haven't got lit up in person. I had a few cold like, thanks. You actually showed up type deals, but it was more just, like, short, it's like, I'm just not gonna flood them with questions. But yeah, for the most part, like coming in and shaking a hand, it's been really appreciated, and it's led to, I mean, the growth and the interactions is has definitely showed itself, yeah, especially when you like, I found, like, you know, you follow up a month or two later, and that's when things really get cooking. But yeah, just coming in and shaking a hand, presenting, I make sure I'm well dressed and presentable, and ask a few questions and then leave before the conversation needs to end. It's just been a great experience, and I enjoyed I'm an extrovert, as much of a nerd as I am, like, I love getting out to see people, so not being in an office right now kind of kills me sometimes. So that's like, it's a perfect way just to get out and shake a few hands and meet some people. So

Blythe Brumleve: 23:50

that's interesting, that you're doing five site visits just today alone. And so how do you how do you prioritize who you're going to visit and why? Yeah,

Unknown: 24:00

so what I do is, when I'm driving around, I'm sure my wife loves this, but if I see a yard like I'll get let's just say Google Maps would be the short answer. But I'll drive by, even if I'm driving to the cabin or something, I'll see. I'm like, Oh, that looks I mean, that looks like stuff that we would move and I'll hop on Google Maps, or I'll text Chris the name of the business, because I just need to write it down before I forget he ignores those now, because he knows, but so I'll do that, and then that's how I find them. And then usually what I'll do is I'll zoom in, because what I'm finding is there's all these little like manufacturing hubs, where you find one manufacturing plant, then there's like six of them in this little area, right? You have, like the residential neighborhood, and then, like, the strip mall with the restaurants in it, and the gas station. And then there's these little like residential things where it's like, All right, well, there's shipping docks in six of these buildings. So I'll go in, look at them, screen them, pick a few, and then just call and stop in and, like I said, one of them today, like, hey, we do all LTL. It's like, well, I don't do LTL. Those great conversation. Thanks for your time. But, yeah, pop in and it's more of a screening, like, I'm not coming in, like, Hey, we're the cheapest, we're the best. It's just like, you know, what are you guys doing? Are you guys seasonal? Do you have your own trucks? Do you go outside ever? Like, what? What's the standard? Or like, where is your headquarters? Can you make the decisions? And usually that's what it leads to, is they're like, Hey, we like, you get a hold of this guy. Let them know you talk to me, and that's what you're getting in person, versus, like, just the cold calls and getting to that generic voicemail and things like that. And the craziest thing that me and Chris always laugh, but it's like, sometimes when it's just when I call ahead and it's a receptionist and I check in with them, they're super nice. That's when they give me the person's information. It's like, that was like, my earning through the gatekeeper right there. Like, that was it. They didn't know anything about they didn't ask, they didn't want to go through questions. But they're like, here's who you need to talk to, and then, like, call me. You'll get me at this front desk, and I'll transfer you through now. Thank you.

Blythe Brumleve: 25:56

I love hearing that because I the other logistics companies I worked at. I was the front desk girl, and I was the executive assistant too, and so anytime somebody walked in, I was instantly annoyed, and I would not give out any information unless you were very nice, unless it was you were expected. There was one moment where, you know, a couple sales guys tried to come in through the front door. And I was like, No, we're not interested. They came in through the back door. And I immediately, it was a whole mess. It was a it was they were persistent, but not in the they were persistent in a creepy way, like coming in through the back door. I was, I did not appreciate that, but that is, I think, that you hit the nail on the head when it comes to the gatekeeper, because the receptionist or the executive assistant at the front door can let you know who anyone in that building, and they can get you that contact information. So I love that you brought that tip,

Unknown: 26:50

yeah, and that's, I mean, calling ahead is the key too. Because I'll say this the few times I've, like, called a location and it wires me to their headquarters in a different state, and they're like, Yeah, go on in. Those have been some of the colder ones. Right when I come in, I'm like, Hey, is Steve here? And he's like, I'm Steve. I'm like, Oh, hey, I'm Angela. I talked to you yesterday. Thanks for letting me stop by. And then it just relaxes the conversation. But, yeah, we always do that call ahead to see because, yeah, the random pop ins, as much as, like, I won't say against it, but like, You got to read the room a little bit too. And even when people well today, I joked, the guy who I called yesterday was out sick today, and his boss was there, and he like, I go, that's funny. Did he let the sales guy come in knowing he was going to be out? And we just said, that was how we broke the ice so but yeah, I was trying to call talk to the person that's going to be there, anything? Yeah, pop in and that

Blythe Brumleve: 27:43

that's super, I think that that's a really good, like, very simple plan too, for a lot of brokers and agents out there who are, you know, I read a lot of, like, subreddits and, you know, from, you know, freight brokers and things like that. And a lot of complaints about how this is the worst market ever. And it just genuinely feels like you guys are just being good people and doing the hard work of doing the research, making the call, and then doing the visit and then following up later. It sounds like too simple to be true. It

Unknown: 28:15

is just be nice to people and see what happens. And like people might not need us. I just, I want them to remember us, and that's the big thing. Like, most people are good today, and that's fine. And, I mean, I don't know better, because I haven't been in another market, but, yeah, it's more, you know. Okay, you've got five trucks in your fleet, and two of them are sitting most of the time. Like, that's great if come, you know, spring when you need more, let us know. And that's when I follow up, or stop back in and say hi. But it's more, yeah, I know that they're busy. They've got other things to do. I just want them to know who I am, remember me, and then we'll be good to go from there.

Blythe Brumleve: 28:50

So how are you, how are you, I guess, tracking who you're going to follow up with, and at what time, I assume you're using a CRM like, what kind of I guess, coming from a technology background, I would assume maybe you know a lot of freight tech and CRMs and things like that are at the forefront of your operation. They

Unknown: 29:07

are, they will be, right now, we're pretty bootstrapping, right still, but it's about time to get into a CRM So right now I've got a good spreadsheet, and I I put notes in my calendar when I'm going to follow up with specific people, so it pops up at some point. It'll be nice to have an automated CRM that says, call these five people today. But, I mean, we're just not, we haven't got to that point in the business yet. But, yeah, I just keep track of everything. I keep track of the notes. Usually, I try not to get into, like, personal Oh, how old are your kids? That's awesome. You know? I don't get into that unless they, like, they have to bring it up. But any notes like and right away, like I I don't take notes while I'm talking to people, but as soon as I get to my truck, I write down everything I can remember, so all those notes are back in there. So that way when I follow up, because who knows, they might not remember me. Usually with the site visits, they've remembered me and they're excited to talk again, but like when I'm doing a follow up call to a different state. It. If I can reference like, hey, we talked about straps versus this, and you guys are running this, but not kind of stogas, then that sets the tone for a better follow up. So just taking all those details notes, I run through it, look at their website before every call, and then I'm refreshed for that call, right there

Blythe Brumleve: 30:17

are there any other, I guess, sort of marketing or sales initiatives that you are passionate about. I mean, it sounds pretty cut and dry, and it's working with what you're doing right now. But I'm curious, if you know, obviously, Chris has the podcast, what about you know, LinkedIn is also another big one in logistics. Is there anything else that really sticks out to you from a marketing and sales perspective that you

Unknown: 30:40

that is such a big one, I don't know yet, is the answer. You know, do, yeah, do we go radio? Do we? Do we do have some SEO, so we're hopefully popping up on search engines, so a little bit of that is kind of the big one. But we've started talking about it, but I just, I'm not, we're not ready to invest that heavy into it right now and which, which? I mean, I don't know if it helps or hurts, but no, right now, at the moment, it's just pure outreach. I know. I mean, Chris's podcast is big, but yeah, I mean, he's talking to me. There are shippers listening, but yeah, there. I don't know. It's, it's more awareness of it, but yeah, I don't know. I guess the short answer is, No, I don't have a plan for marketing yet.

Blythe Brumleve: 31:24

You're already doing it like, Yeah, way better than, you know, sending out, you know, downloading a glorified lead list from zoom info and then just blasting out a 10,000 emails. Like, I detest that method.

Unknown: 31:37

Yeah, that's not what we're gonna do. No, it'll always be that personal as we can go out there, and as we grow, you know, fly to different cities and do these safe visits, especially like I think I've done. I don't know why I looked at my blank screen. I think I've visited about 150 people in the Twin Cities at this point. So like, I'm starting to get a feel for how to have a conversation, um, and yeah, eventually we'll take that and expand on it. But as far as like a pure like LinkedIn or Facebook blasts, or those type of things, like I don't Well at some point, I won't say no to it, but it's just not what we're doing today. Yeah,

Blythe Brumleve: 32:10

and especially with what does your team look like? Is the two of you? And are there anybody else? It

Unknown: 32:16

was, it's just the two of us right now. And then, as soon as I've got my nerd metrics of when we will start ready to hire and trust I went far. So far my business plan has been accurate, just not the calendar, but yeah, it's so we just hit those metrics and then we'll have those conversations grow. But yeah, right now it's just Chris and I, and we're having a blast doing it.

Blythe Brumleve: 32:37

So I'm curious back to SPI for a minute, because what does, I guess, that it sounds like you and Chris are handling, you know, covering a lot of ground with the two of you. How does SPI sort of play a role within the business? Obviously, back off a back office support and, you know, their annual event with, you know, rendezvous with all the other trade agents I want to know a little bit more about after you get started with SPI and what sort of the, I guess, the the middle, like operational relationship looks like with them. Are you talking with them every day? Are you participating in training? What does that look like? Yeah, so

Unknown: 33:15

that initial stuff, there is training and all that. And for me, like I had never been in a TMS. So that took a little longer than it should, but after about three, four loads, it made sense. Like, here's what I'll say about SPI they are great when you need them, and they're when you don't, they don't, they don't bug you. Yeah, they don't bug you. It's, it's a great service. Like, if I have a question on a load, or, you know, we do make some adjustments, or something like that, they answer the phone quickly. They're there. The response time is great. If you, if it's an email, like, everything's good. So it's kind of more just, like, what do you need? And if you don't need anything, it's just a great platform to work. And so it's kind of a perfect my favorite, one of my favorite compliments, is boring and, like, that's pretty much it like, I love a good, boring load where it gets picked up on time and dropped on time, and they get the updates, and the customer may or may not say, Thanks for the updates, but they know that it's going to get done. And like, that's a good, boring load. And especially, I mean, they're just easy to work with. And like, there hasn't been any, like, changes where I'm like, what were we thinking? Yeah, it's just, there's just a great it's just an easy platform and group of people to get to work with. And, like, I know most of my name, and, yeah, it's awesome.

Blythe Brumleve: 34:25

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to them, because they are just, they're, like, the best silent partners, and you can just moving and doing, you know, the work that you do best, and they're there to support you. And I, you know, I had the pleasure of going to one of their rendezvous not last year, but the year before, and met a lot of the agents. And it was just, it was very evident that even though there's a little bit of like light competition between different agencies, but everyone is there to learn from each other. Have you had a chance to go to one of their rendezvous events? I

Unknown: 34:58

did, yeah. It was I went to. For my first rendezvous last when was that last April, and Nashville? One? Yeah, the Nashville, yeah, the Apri Yeah. It was awesome. Just to see it was wild to see so many different people with so many different goals for their businesses that worked in the same system, and everyone was so nice. Like, obviously we don't share shippers names, but like, I mean, case in point, there's one another agent, we got an opportunity to do some drayage, and we were like, Let's do it. And we called them up because, like, we knew that they had done a lot of drayage, and they gave us an hour their time. And like, you know, here's the list that we use, or just, here's what to watch out for, here's how to quote, here's how to do these things. And like, we knew it, but he knew knew it, right? And then because of that, we got really good and that was a very good business move for us and the customer. And so that's, yeah, that is the kind of support you get from the other agents. And it's been and they reach out to us for, like, Chris' expertise in open deck. And so it's like, of course, we're going to tell them everything. Like, why? Why would we hold back? Like, go for it. We want you to be successful, and it is just a great, yeah, there is, there's trophies and things like that. But outside of that, like, nobody cares. And, you know, there was a very well established agent there. And, you know, I just want I asked him a couple questions. And, like, I don't know why, like, again, with the imposter syndrome and still getting started things like that. Like, why should this guy give me the time of day? And he answered everything and like, it was just a great conversation. And it was just like, those are the type of people that they attract and work with and keep. And it's, it's very evident in that, was

Blythe Brumleve: 36:32

it Steve burrows? It was, how'd

Unknown: 36:35

you know? Because I love it. He's so great,

Blythe Brumleve: 36:39

favorite agent interviews ever agent that I've interviewed twice. I Oh, man. So when you were talking and I was like, I bet that's Steve. I bet it's Steve. It was Steve.

Unknown: 36:48

And there's a few others too. Yeah, he was one of those ones. I'm like, yeah, he's here with his whole family. He's, like, got one of the biggest agencies in here. And, like, I'm just this guy. Like, how many so, like, I train at a gym and I see so many guys come in, they're gonna, like, I'm gonna get in the UFC cage, and then they're gone in a month, right? And I'm like, How many, how many of these Has he seen, right? And, but he just opened up. It just answered everything. And it was just a great conversation. And, I mean, and he wasn't the only one that was just one of the ones that stood up, but like, everyone was like that. And just like, a character

Blythe Brumleve: 37:22

too, like he's like, the best, like TV dad character, like, I don't know, reminds me of, like, like a country Tim Allen or something like that. Yeah, very much. Is like, you know, it almost feels like another dad and like he would just give me fatherly advice all the time.

Unknown: 37:42

Oh yeah. Well, he asked me, like we were talking about, I forget how we got on the Florida conversation, but like we were joking about before this call. And I was like, Yeah, I was just down there, and I took my dad out fishing on the ocean. He's like, if you ever come down, let me know. I know some guys. I'm like, I'm going to take you up on that. I don't know when, but it's going to happen

Blythe Brumleve: 38:01

for the listeners who don't maybe, maybe get a lot of these references, because Steve burrows has been a guest on this podcast twice now. I'll link to it in the show notes. It's one of our both of his episodes are some of the most, highest downloaded episodes that we have in our entire catalog. And I think it's, you know, very I think you're kind of hinting to it too, like his, he just has a really great aura. And I think that that signals to your other point of just SPI really focusing on the the aura of people in a vibe like you can't really put like, I guess, data and numbers behind. Of course, you want more revenue, you want more customers and all that good stuff. But it has to really start from being a good person, and it believing in certain moral principles and things like that. And I think that that leadership comes from, it comes from the top at SPI, and then it, you can definitely see it filter down, especially in in this conversation. So far, you can tell that, you know, SPI really values the relationship aspect. And you know, why? Why wouldn't they, if they've been around for 40 years, which not a lot of freight agencies can say that, right?

Unknown: 39:06

I would completely agree. And he, like Steve, is one, like they all. Everyone was, I mean, not everyone was as large as life of that guy, but like, everyone was just easy to talk to, easy to approach, very friendly, like that. I do think that they, they line up. They make sure what you're doing has the like, the values that they want to keep. I think that's important to them, and they've built it out over time. So,

Blythe Brumleve: 39:29

so what does first question? Because I got, I got a couple more about sort of what you kind of feel like, what the outlook of 2025 is going to look like. But I do, while this question is still kind of permeating in my head, why haven't you ever been on Chris's podcast, the great coach for folks,

Unknown: 39:44

that's a great question. A lot of it comes to the thing I've mentioned before. Like, I still, I mean, yes, I've been doing this for almost two and a half years now, but like, still, I feel like I want to earn my way in. And like, Am I an expert? Why should someone listen to me? So whether it's insecurity or what, like, I want. To be I want to be able to contribute. And so that's a big thing. If I do go on a show. The other thing, my background is in engineering, and my wife loves this. I try to fix everything. I'm pretty good at it. So I try to, like, let that entity stay as it is, because he's good at it. It's a strong platform. He delivers great value to the industry. And like, I don't want to go in and be like, Hey, you should put dramatic pauses in here and there. Like, I don't want to put that in his head. Or you should get a new microphone. Like, I don't do that. Like, we'll do mic checks and things like that. I'm there for him for that, but I try. I don't want to go into like, I I'd like to be like me trying to tell a major league baseball player what to do. Like, who am I? So

Blythe Brumleve: 40:41

look on his face if you told him a dramatic pause,

Unknown: 40:48

it's good. I messed with him a few times like that. But yeah, it's you also got to remember we know, we know, know each other, right? So there's not a lot of holding back.

Blythe Brumleve: 40:58

Well, I will say that just you know, in the 41 minutes that we have been having a conversation, I look forward to the day that you join his podcast and and have that first episode with him. I imagine it'll be a lot of fun. And so, you know, as we sort of round out the conversation, what are sort of your goals and your play? I imagine you you have the goals already sort of lined up for the rest of 25 what does that look like?

Unknown: 41:22

Yeah, it's, you know, putting metrics as we shifted into, like, the calls from emails about a year ago. It's really like holding ourselves accountable to making sure we're hitting those metrics, and then turning those into new customers. So we've got very specific people that we want to add, and I think we're gonna be able to do it, you know, a lot of the especially this year and in December, I could sense a lot of optimism in the companies that I talked to with where we're going. I don't think it's going to be a light switch that turns on here like in April. Maybe it is, but it seems like there's a lot of optimism and things picking up and things moving. And the big thing for me is going to be now that I've established these relationships, is really making sure to follow up with them. And that's that, you know, that's funny, like, one of the biggest things I've learned, like, I've gone to sites, and it's gone great, and they I sent them an email, and they set me up, and everything's good, and we high five, and then it's just not a good fit for what we're trying to do for multiple reasons. But then, like, these ones where I've, like, talked to people three four times when they're like, hey, you know, send me your information, or here's our packet. Do you have something? Those have turned into long relationships and good working relationships. So it's really going to be focused on building those and, like, not just calling all my list once, it's going to be all right, who are these people that I've had good conversations with that went well, and I still gotta learn this too, right? How do I talk to someone for the fourth time? Do I just pop in and bring donuts or what? I'll figure that out. But it's like, it's really gonna be making those follow ups for those metrics, and, yeah, growing a sustainable business that we can hopefully, I said, Help shippers of all sizes be good to our carriers. And then when we do start hiring like, make people like, enjoy themselves. Here now you will have fun. But like, have people like, build an environment that people enjoy and brag about and hopefully bring their other good friends.

Blythe Brumleve: 43:13

And if I'm not mistaken, both you and Chris are, are you both the sons of truck drivers?

Unknown: 43:20

Actually? Yeah, yeah, we are. So yeah, Chris's dad, Gary, was over the road. I don't know if he's ever said his name online. Anyways, awesome guy. He's hysterical. But yeah, and then my dad was a local Twin Cities driver my whole life. So yeah, we both knew that, like but that was just the norm. So Well, I think

Blythe Brumleve: 43:39

that that explains your your your passion for wanting to take care of carriers first, because that is an extension of your business. Steve burrows actually said this on a recent show, that he wants to make sure that his carriers are representing his business, because they're the ones meeting the shippers. That

Unknown: 43:57

is the truth. And I, I'll take it one step first, so that that's huge, right, for keeping the business. But then selfishly, like, I love it when I call, because we do have regular carriers. I love it when I call and they answer on the first ring and they're, like, excited to talk to me because they know, like, I know that they're I know their niche, their lanes, and they, you know, we treat everyone good and take care of things if issues do happen. And like, that's what we want to build. And like, I like that. I always say, like, and that's about one of my jokes with drivers, like, I want you to answer when I call or want to, want to answer. So that's a big thing. Is like, yeah, treating them good. I mean, they're out there. And I know this has been said in the industry, but it's like, I'm behind a computer here in I can put a sweatshirt on if I get cold, everything's fine. They're out there, loading, strapping security, like moving it and then unloading it and talking to the shippers and receivers like they're really getting it done. So I have a huge appreciation, and we want to make sure they get

Blythe Brumleve: 44:51

treated well too. Yeah, absolutely. So okay, so positive outlook for 2025 now is probably a good time for folks who maybe. Are thinking about doing the same thing that you and Chris are doing. What advice would you give to a perspective freight agent on what's the first SOPs that they gotta get set up as they're thinking about their business plan?

Unknown: 45:13

The first ESCON? There's not one. Get it all right? Legal, yeah, legal is going to be the big one, especially if you're doing a partnership, get rid all that guesswork. Have the financial conversations beforehand. Like, how do you want to take distributions? Do we both have the same needs? What does that look like? Right? Have those conversations and then see, get set up with a bank. Actually had a conversation with a buddy, not in logistics, but he wanted to talk to my tax guy. And I'm like, I called him back. I was like, What do you got cooking? Because I'm not, like, my tax guy's busy, like, what? And he was like, Well, I want to figure this out and this out. I'm like, go make a sale first. I'm like, I can get you structured in a week. Go make a sale first, and then we'll take care of this. And it's like, just jump in and go get the bank, the LLC, the operating agreement with a good legal team and get running. I'm such a planner and a prepare, like I that was where me and Chris, that's one of the prime examples of us balancing each other out, where he's like, Alright, we gotta be on the sales call, and I'm like, we need to write SOPs. And it's like, he was right. We both were right, but we like, sales is what's driving it right? Yeah. And then, I mean, most people who are going to go into this probably had more experience than me, and they know how to vet a carrier and stuff like that, so you could choose how important that is to you at that time. Yeah.

Blythe Brumleve: 46:33

Well, I think you, you very much. I said hit the nail on the head a few times during this conversation when to say it again, the legal part. You know how answering some of those questions ahead of time, especially for our partnership, before they become a big issue and could potentially put you out of business using the wrong carrier. If you don't have the right legal or finance backing, then that could put you out of business. So I think that both of you guys were really smart to take that approach. But then to, I guess, to more of Chris' style. It's also you can get lost in the SOPs, and you can get lost in making sure that everything is perfect before you actually get going. And you can't do that. You got to have a little bit of the both. So I think it's, it's brilliant, the way that you guys have worked together, and clearly it's working, and clearly you're doing a lot of good things. And and hopefully, I say hopefully y'all are going to keep it up

Unknown: 47:24

at 20. We're going, Oh yeah, it's non stop right now. So

Blythe Brumleve: 47:28

anything we can expect from you guys, maybe a first appearance on the podcast later on this year, I officially have bragging rights as far

Unknown: 47:36

as, yeah, no. Big thing is going to be just growing the business. And like, that's kind of our main focus right now, and staying on track. And we'd like, yeah, it's, it's pure growth mode. And then we both are blessed with beautiful families, so it's balancing that out. And, yeah, basically family and business right now

Blythe Brumleve: 47:59

amazing. Well, this was a fantastic conversation. Angelo, any where can folks follow you? Follow your more of your work. Maybe they're a shipper and they want to get in contact with you. Where can I send folks?

Unknown: 48:11

Yeah, so I don't have so I would, I mean, Chris has got all the freight coach, so he's gonna be one to find. But I would just say free coach, logistics.com website. My Instagram is boring. I don't think I posted in like, three years, like we joked, I I'm not the front man. I'm the operations guy behind it who's doing sales. Um, I don't have that huge presence, and that's we've talked about. Like, should I do that as, like, a marketing standpoint? But I don't know. Like, yeah, I guess freight coach Logistics is how you can find me fake coaches. I know, yeah, I'm not, like, yeah, Chris is the face. I'm okay with the face. I want to get things done. And, like, we both want to get things done. So yeah, I guess just our website. And feel free to reach out.

Blythe Brumleve: 48:50

Heck yeah. And then we'll put a link to all of those things in the show notes. And then, yeah, you're exactly right. Because Chris in podcasting, he is unstoppable. When it comes to the podcast, it's like Jesus take a break. For God's sakes you're making me giving me anxiety. I have to produce all these new episodes, but he's not going to, all right. Angelo, this was a great conversation. Thank you so much. We'll make sure that we put all of that information in the show notes, and good luck in in 2025 I say that, but I don't think you're going to need it. Oh, thank

Unknown: 49:24

you very much. And, yeah, it was honor to be on. I appreciate, yeah, I appreciate you letting me be here and have a great day. Awesome. You.