The Logistics of SHEIN: From Imports to Influencers

In this episode of Everything is Logistics, we dig into the e-commerce scene and why SHEIN is at the center of the conversation, with SHEIN and Temu making up a whopping 30% of all e-commerce shipments coming through the West Coast.

Grace Sharkey and I also chat about the flood of these tax-free shipments and how customs and border folks are scrambling to keep up. Plus, we’ll take a closer look at SHEIN's business practices on the retail and influencer side.

LINKS:

• Freight Friends: Surviving Conference Season, Fav Biz Ideas, Cargo Crimes and more
• Fast Fashion, Freight Rates and Conspiracies: Unraveling the Complexities
• Search for Ethical Brands
• Grace's Article on Using AI in Customs-border Trade Compliance
• Alibaba’s tools for cross border shipping and global sourcing with Yikun Shao

WATCH THE FULL EPISODE HERE

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Chapters

• 1:26 Janet Labuda's Insights on Customs and Trade
• 6:47 The Temu Shopping Experience: A Personal Perspective
• 13:10 SHEIN's Influencer PR Disaster: Unpacking the Controversy
• 29:51 Fast Fashion Origins: From English Countryside to Global Industry
• 36:57 Ethical Shopping in the Digital Age: Tools and Considerations
• 40:50 SHEIN's E-Commerce Strategy and Consumer Experience
• 42:00 The Impact of Fast Fashion on the Environment

Transcript

Blythe Brumleve: 0:00

Welcome into another episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight I'm your host, Blythe Brumleve, and we are proudly presented by SPI logistics. And in this episode, I want to resurface a couple of conversations around e commerce and how one of those companies she in dominates the discussion, because 30% of all e-commerce shipments coming into the West Coast of the United States belongs to Temu or SHEIN, 30% and as long as those shipments are valued at under $800 it ships into this country tax free. So in this first segment I have prepared for y'all. We're going to be bringing up my good friend Grace Sharkey to talk about the influx of these shipments, how our customs and border departments are trying to keep up with it, and then later on, we're going to get into the retail and influencer side of SHEIN's business practices. All of the talks that I went to were fantastic. One of yours in particular was the one on, like, AI, and like, customs and border trade. And I, I've said on this, on the series, you know, lots of times, I am such an obsessed fan of to catch a smuggler. That's a show that comes on National Geographic. So I'm obsessed with, like, Customs and Border policies. And like, you know, I just the flow of goods through country to country. And you had a woman on your panel, Janet, I'm blanking on her last name, but I she was like, 70 years old, talking about, like, adopting AI, talking about trade compliance. She stole the show, like she was so brilliant during that talk. Do you have a little bit, I guess, maybe background or insight on her, yeah,

Grace Sharkey: 1:42

so she Janet Labuda, and for everyone out there, actually, I, my latest article on freightwaves is about this panel, so you can get some of the stories off of that from that Blythe is talking about. She works as a consultant for customs policy for Maersk, and she had spent most of her career, I think 25 years of it, working for the Customs Border Protection. So she the best way to explain it is like, you know, I think some people hear Customs Border CBP, and they just think, Oh, the people like checking our checking us out when we cross the border. She made it like, I think they should have, did they deserve a TV show? I mean, she like, made it very like NCI se, where it was like, wow. Like, you've seen some things in your life, you know. And one of my favorite stories, and I talked about this article, she's, she talks about, I don't know you might have came in right after Operation Mirage, where they took, so this is when she was working textiles for CBP, and they took, like, 150 of the Top X textile importers, and they wanted to prove that they were who they said they were. Like, see how, how legit some of these importers were. So they they went to China, they went and visited all of the physical addresses on the paperwork for these imports. And only 55% of those, 150 I believe, importers were legit. The other half were like, just like a woman in a house, and then they're like, how does this work? Like, how are you doing all this paperwork? And she's like, I I don't do any of it. I provide them my address. I get a penny per transaction. And this woman had made like, $10,000 a month from like, allowing the Chinese government to, like, use her location or, or the Chinese importer to use the location for fraud. So it's that is like, and that's just like choosing 150 like, imagine all the importers that they see on a daily, a daily basis, right? And here's the problem. And she brought, I actually brought it up because I knew exactly I knew she knew what I was talking about. But a couple of years ago, right? I think 2018 e commerce started to be a big deal. And the CBP was like, we need to address this so they You can Google it. I actually have a link to it in the article. They came up with a plan to start figuring out how to get their control of of all these imports and all these e commerce, I mean, all these small packages, right? Like we can't open up every single one, that there's no way, there's no way to prove that a lot of this is right. So there's a number of tech companies. Altona technologies is one box C is another one that I've talked to in the past that works with customs Porter and the Department of Defense as well to help them figure out, okay. This is the limited number of resources we have to watch for fraud, watch for drugs, watch for even like goods, yeah, counterfeit goods, right? Then here's, this is who you should target, or these boxes is what you should be looking at, and it helps them at least pinpoint where to start, and it's just kind of funny to like, you don't really think about it, but all of the packages that are coming in, right? Like, they go check, every single one of them say they don't even check. They don't even have time to check all the trucks that come through the border. So it's, there's one I talked about in the article, but like, there's one time they caught like, five pound, like, over five pounds of fentanyl. And I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but a drop of fentanyl will, like, kill you. It's two milligrams, I think, is lethal dose. So that comes out to potentially when killing close to a half a million people. So, yeah, it's, it's pretty interesting. And I like, like, I said, she really like, she's fascinating. She started writing a book, like, on the plane to the event, like she was reading us, like her first like paragraph. And so I can't wait for this book to come out, because I think it's going to be full of stories, that's for sure. And I think

Blythe Brumleve: 6:16

she, too, she had a mind blowing stat of, like, something like 30% of E commerce shipments that are coming from China to the West Coast are all from the company temu. Yes. So temu, like the gamified, like shopping, e commerce app, it's kind of adjacent to SHEIN, kind of not really, maybe a lot of the same technology,

Grace Sharkey: 6:39

but everything like and everything. It's like, Groupon, right? Where it's like, what's not on this site, right?

Blythe Brumleve: 6:47

And it's one of those, it's one of those experiences that I've never felt like I was duped, like online shopping, but temu duped me. Yeah, I did the thing. I they had, you know, that Super Bowl commercial, and I was like, oh, you know, let me, let me try it out. Let me try it out. Let me download the app. And I downloaded the app, and I started up a cart of just some, you know, obviously, some knockoff things that looked interesting, like the Dyson hair dryer that has, like the five tools in one. Like, I got that thing, I got, you know, a bunch of other things. And it's crap. It's crap products. You really have to, like, look for the good products and really just be willing to roll the dice on it. But anyways, I started up a cart of the things that I wanted, and then, you know, you do what you do, you leave the app and you you don't buy anything yet. So I went to social media, and I was browsing on there, and I got an ad on Instagram for a few products that looked interesting from temu. And so I click on the ad, it opens up the app. What happened is that it opened up a separate cart from the one I already had. So I thought that I was adding things to my current cart, and when I saw the total price, I was like, Oh my gosh. Like that includes everything that includes everything that I had just already added, and the new stuff that was targeted to me in a social media post. And I clicked order purchase, and then I go back and find out that, no, they just created a separate cart for me all together. So I thought that that was a little bit shady, and I didn't like that, because it was definitely like, misleading. Have you bought anything from them?

Grace Sharkey: 8:24

I've been on the app and I've but that's kind of like, my thing is, like, I'm like, I know this is just going to be like, destroyed once I get this. So No, unfortunately, I haven't followed through with a purchase for it yet, but I've gotten awfully close. And I will say I love watching team unboxings, like that's why they do those on Instagram as well. But it's

Blythe Brumleve: 8:51

no by the Dyson dupe, it is not good. No, not good. It's already getting returned. And you know how much of a hassle some of these companies are with with their returns? Anyways. So that was a really good stat from from Janet, and her talk was incredible. I hope you have her on the show soon. She was just filled with, like, a wealth of knowledge. And what was so refreshing is that she's, like, I'm a 70 year old woman, and I think that AI is like, the next big thing, like, she's already using it and her processes. And I was like, Oh, thank God. You know, we don't have some kind of, you know, Doomer speech on on AI and, you know, helping her do her job more efficiently. And the other two women on the panel were fantastic, too. But Janet just sort of stood out to me, as you know, panel wise from all the panels that I saw, she was the most entertaining. So kudos to you. Are you in freight sales with a book of business looking for a new home, or perhaps you're a freight agent in need of a better partnership? These are the kinds of conversations we're exploring in our podcast interview series called The freight agent trenches, sponsored by SPI logistics. Now I can tell you all day that SPI is one of the most successful logistics firms in North America. America who helps their agents with back office operations such as admin, finance, it and sales, but I would much rather you hear it directly from SPI freight agents themselves. And what better way to do that than by listening to the experienced freight agents tell their stories behind the how and the why they joined SPI hit the freight agent link in our show notes to listen to these conversations, or if you're ready to make the jump, visit SPI threepl.com now that you have a general idea of the massive amount of shipments coming into the US from these two companies, let's talk a little bit more about Shein. Last year, they and a bunch of influencers got in some hot water when the company tried to PR their way into good supply chain messaging the internet doing what the internet does best, was not going to let them or the influencers off the hook. So Grace and I are going to be talking about this story, plus the moral dilemma of trying to shop in a world where everything is trying to kill you. First topic though, fast fashion in the supply chain, because there are a lot of Shein influencers right now that are in a lot of shit. And sort of, yes, you know that the too long didn't read, the too long didn't watch, this is making big waves, and sort of like the fashion beauty landscape, because a bunch of influencers were invited to visit a factory in, I think it was in Denver or around the Colorado area, or they were flown to China, one of the two, I couldn't really grasp where they actually did the factory tour. I would be surprised if they did a factory tour in the United States, because I didn't know that she and had any factories in the United States. So they anyways, they took this trip. It was she in a little bit of backstory. Has they have some rumblings about their supply chain morals. They use low cost labor, to put it mildly. They have factories staged all over the world where they can take advantage of low cost labor, and that is the reason why you can get very, very cheaply made clothes very, pretty fast and very cheap. We're talking like anywhere from like eight to $10 for a shirt that you'll see on a lot of different e com shops, Amazon shops that will those shops will list it for around 30 bucks. So it just kind of, I guess it shines a light on their supplier system and where they're getting a lot of these clothing. So the influencers went there. They looked at a lot of their different operations within a warehouse. And because of that, a lot of folks have come out and started commenting and targeting these influencers because they didn't know about, or maybe they didn't know about, you know, some of their shady manufacturing policies. They just got a tour of a warehouse and got some behind the scenes footage, and now they're, they're being blamed for SHEIN's, I guess, supply chain. So with all that said grace, I know you've done, you know, plenty of work on these types of stories. So, so what is your early read on on this one, I

Grace Sharkey: 13:10

will say they, they did, and they did fly them to China. So they did go. Okay, I and I will say I have, like, I have mixed feelings, because I've attempted this the same flight myself. There's a big company out in China called jd.com and I've tried they, they're, like, the Amazon of China. They've got, like, all robotics, like warehouses and stuff like that. And I have tried so hard to get close to their marketing team. And I'm like, and they're they did kind of the same thing years ago. And so I was like, if you're ever doing this again, like a list, just because I think I've never been to China, I think I would love it, and hopefully I would be blind to whatever atrocities that are happening behind the scenes. Also, I will say i i bought from the site once or twice, and I've never been fully thrilled by the quality. So at first I was like, okay, interested in seeing, like, maybe how I've done deep dives on their technology. Though they have a ton of investment that they've done in the past, in particular, that is pretty interesting, and a

Blythe Brumleve: 14:26

lot of algorithms really sophisticated. Yes, yeah.

Grace Sharkey: 14:30

I mean they, they're deep into buy now, pay later, systems, their reverse logistics is, is pretty huge. They work with a company called narvar that has over 200,000 drop off locations they have, they put a lot of money into the influencer side of things, right gaining that loyalty and retention really gamifying rewards for customers and for and for those influencers. Uh, they, I know big areas, traceability, visibility, tools. I think that's a lot of people will say, right? If I do buy from them, it usually gets to me pretty quickly, and it usually is. They're pretty open to the delivery times and things of that nature. So it is, it's pretty interesting as a whole, I think, where they're investing in making sure that they're competing really well with more of these US operations. Now, how are they getting things done so fast and so cheap? Probably not great labor practices, which is why everyone is really fighting against them. When I say everyone, I mean our elected representatives. So I guess she and girls, if you're out there and you're organized and you want to fight against it, reach out to your your representatives and let them know to stop it. But yeah,

Blythe Brumleve: 15:57

because trying to block the IPO, she and is trying to IPO in the United States, but they're blocking it. I think, yeah,

Grace Sharkey: 16:04

well, I think they put it on pause just because of the uproar from representatives knowing that the fight's there. Right wherever you want to go public, you want to make it as smooth as possible, aka, pay less lawyers as much as possible. So I think that's part of the reason they're holding off for now, but yeah, a lot of representatives aren't happy that, and it makes sense. I mean, they are a powerful being. They're anti competitive, and the fact that you're using labor that no one else here is allowed to use. So yeah, I guess I wasn't surprised so that they brought in influencers. It's a, it's a pretty smart attempt to try to cover yourselves up. But I think what happened right is that backlash on the influencer themselves, knowing whether or not you saw any of it, knowing, okay, well, how's noone there asks a tough question of but you're also in China, who's trying to ask tough question. That's it's like, Who's who gets this trip to China? It's like, okay, now that we're here,

Blythe Brumleve: 17:07

right? Everyone wants to pretend as if they're an investigative journalist. And it's, no, it is. Nobody does it more than, like the keyboard warriors who see and I think that there's kind of, like, a few things going on. I think that there's a little bit of jealousy going on from the commenters seeing somebody get advanced, get, get, get the advantages of, you know, getting flown out, going on these, you know, behind the scenes type tours, and, you know, not having access to those sort of same opportunities. And then also, there's the geopolitical like struggles between the US and China is that's another kind of play involved as well. And then there's the folks who are really passionate about the environment. So it's like all of these things that are coming together, and obviously labor laws as well, and ethical sourcing, which is just, it's kind of like exhausting at times. So I don't blame like these, because from like, a greater point, I there's a lot of responsibility that's put on the consumer to know these things, to know the entire supply chain of these big conglomerates, when sometimes you just need a dress in a few days. You just need something cheap in a few days. So are you, you know, some days I'm not gonna have my, you know, morality standards, you know, eyes wide open on every single thing that I'm doing. I just think that they're, they got a little, I think the overwhelming majority of these influencers got too much heat, when that heat should be directed towards the company, because it's something like a hot and, like, close to or 71 companies, or like, the top 100 companies, are responsible for 71% of emissions since, like, the 1980s Yeah, and it's these big corporations, it's in their best interest to put the onus on the consumer, and so if they make it challenging to find out the, I guess, the morality and the ethical nature of the supply chain, if they put that on the consumer, then they can kind of wash their hands of it. And that's what's happening right now with these influencers, because she and is not coming in to help and defend them. It's everyone. They're getting blocked like they're not getting blocked. But a lot of these influencers have turned their comments off. They've deleted the posts. There's one girl in particular which I should probably play the clip now. She seems to be the one that is getting a lot of the I guess ire of folks is being directed towards her, but she apparently, I haven't seen the videos. Some of them were taken down. She deleted them because she was trying to, like, double down on her message. Of like, I met with them behind closed doors in Denver, and I think that's where Denver comes from. So. She met with she and people in Denver to kind of talk about some of those ethical issues, and she said that she was comfortable with their answers. And so she created a bunch of comment or content defending she in and so I think that that's why, that she's getting a little bit of this heat, yeah. And so let me see if you know, what's

Grace Sharkey: 20:21

interesting too, is like, you're exactly right. Like, as much as our generation wants to say, like, hey, we stand for right. These like ESG initiatives and sustainable practices, they're valued at over $100 billion so I think it's the average person has bought 14 items every year from them. Oh, wow. And 28% of US fashion sales is going to them as well. So,

Blythe Brumleve: 20:49

wow, yeah, it's huge.

Grace Sharkey: 20:51

So at some point it's like, I say this to people too, and anything political like, you know what doesn't change things, yelling at people on social media, like, take that same energy, write a letter to your representative, go visit them right as you're gonna fly to China. Go, go visit your representative down the street who's in an office that's completely approachable and and let them know. Like, that's how you feel. Like, like, yeah, bullying a bunch of influencers on tick tock, which, if we want to go down that rabbit hole owned by the Chinese, they're

Blythe Brumleve: 21:28

being bullied on Instagram too.

Grace Sharkey: 21:31

China's like, win, win,

Blythe Brumleve: 21:37

win. Literally, they're

Grace Sharkey: 21:41

like, Oh yes, oh yes. Go, go make content on Tiktok and yell at each other there. That's not good for us either. And tweet

Blythe Brumleve: 21:49

it from your iPhones and text it from your iPhones that are also, you know, I mean, how deep are we gonna go with this, like, ethical supply chain? Because I would, I would be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of those, I would willing to bet all of them, that all of those comments that were made in a negative fashion were coming from a phone that has natural resources that were sourced using a lot of the same corrupt labor practices. So that's, I guess that's not an excuse, but it is something that you know from like a fast fashion standpoint, it is becoming, I think, more just aware with our generation, but also with younger generations. I think that's why we're seeing, you know, a lot of the increases in, like, vintage fashion and vintage finds. And I don't you know, anecdotally, here in Jacksonville, there are a handful of shops that have popped up all over Jacksonville specializing in, like, you know, vintage sports gear from, like, Florida based teams, or just, really anywhere, you know, people who getting rid of their old stuff, and they're going to thrift stores, and they're finding them, and they're sourcing them themselves, and then selling it in their retail shops. So it's shop specifically designed to to rethread or not re thread, but, yeah, I guess upscale upsell. I don't know what that that phrase is called, but it's basically just making sure that your the clothes that you're buying has a certain shelf life where you can reuse them multiple times, multiple, you know, decades, versus like the SHEIN clothes, which you know, may fall apart after a couple of days. There was one shirt I bought from Shein, and this is totally my fault, but I tried to put an iron on it and melted right to the iron. So it's not the best made stuff, either. But let me play this clip really quick, because this is the chick I was talking about. That is she's facing the most because she's doubled down. She has since gone and deleted a lot of those posts, but this is her sort of explaining. Brokering success demands a battle ready strategy. Ty TMS equips freight brokers with the ultimate battle station for conquering a tough market. With Ty, brokers gain access to a comprehensive platform where rate intelligence and quote history converge on a single screen. It's not just a page, it's a strategic command center designed to help brokers win. Tai equips your team with all of the data they need to negotiate with confidence and allows them to communicate directly with carriers and customers from a simple control base, revolutionize the way your brokers perform by giving them a competitive advantage with Thai TMS. For more info, go to Tai dash software.com, backslash battle stations. And we also have a link for you in the show notes to sign up for a demo.

Unknown: 24:35

Feel like a show. It didn't feel like something was quickly put together. Influencer Danny carbonari is speaking out against growing criticism after posting glowing reviews of Shan's operations in China in an almost 12 minute video, the influencer begins by saying she is imperfect and can take accountability for her actions. She describes being interested in the brand over their size, inclusivity and affordability, and said she's friends with someone who. There who helped make further introductions. She explains, the company took her on a brand trip to Tahoe, where she says she brought up many concerns and questions to the higher ups. Later, she said she had an Off The Record meeting with political people and journalists where higher ups addressed more questions and gave answers to me. I was I'm a very like logistic person, and they just gave so many numbers and like, that's when I learned about, like, their auditing system and how they do have so many suppliers. She explains that the China trip was organized because the company wanted to put an end to criticism. We're aware of all these rumors and all this stuff that's going on, and we want to put an end to it. The trip, we were not paid for the trip. We were not paid to post. Our travel accommodations were taken care of, but ultimately, Danny still says she needs to do better, adding that the experience has caused her to reevaluate her brand and herself. I should have done more research. And I think content creators, in general, we don't do enough research. And I think especially plus size content creators, we're just so happy to be included. I'm, you know, sorry and sad that a lot of people that don't know me, you know, are so, so angry and upset. But the best thing that I can do moving forward is to lead with the same intention and authentic, authenticity. I always have an ad in doing the research, doing my part.

Blythe Brumleve: 26:21

So thoughts,

Grace Sharkey: 26:25

I'm like, a logistics person. Okay,

Blythe Brumleve: 26:29

that's why I wanted to play that clip, because she said that line, I was like, we have to play this because she's trying to bring the logistics girlies into her drama, and we're not going to

Grace Sharkey: 26:39

logistics girls. I want to you love what audience is she talking to? Our audience

Blythe Brumleve: 26:48

started to creep in. They

Grace Sharkey: 26:50

found out I also love that they actually like forced her into labor too. How Chinese of them? It's so awesome. She's, at one point, literally packing boxes. Like, this is perfect. You know, it's interesting because, like, they could have knowing, not knowing China and our best friends, but knowing China's antics, like, there's always other like that could have been like a warehouse. I would be surprised if that's like a upfront warehouse that they take clients to. Oh, for sure. I mean, I doubt that's where it's all happening. I mean, for the amount of clothing and stuff in that, like, No, there's no way that's where that's all happening. I just hate, I will say I hate apology videos, just like, do it and move on. Like, I don't know why people spend this time. Like, oh my god, I made a mistake. Like, no, you got a free trip to China? Like, great, yes.

Blythe Brumleve: 27:50

Like, double down on that. Like, who would I mean, I we've seen, you know, some of these logistical operations up close at, like, the manifest conference, for example, where you can see these robotics and like these intricate systems that truly is fascinating, and I can totally empathize with, is getting an opportunity like that, being able to getting a flight, getting travel accommodations to go to another most people would not turn that opportunity down. Yeah, I would have had a lot more respect for if she just doubled down on it and she said, hey, you know, this is what I'm doing, and this is why I'm doing it. And 90% of y'all would do the exact same things. 90% of y'all would take this trip. But now she has, since she's deleted all those videos promoting the I guess, behind the scenes, not tours that she's dead, but behind the scenes conversations, because she called herself an investigative journalist. Oh, God, ma'am. You take outfit photos. You are not an investigative journalist. It's a completely different skill set. She's

Grace Sharkey: 28:56

a logistics person and an investigative journalist

Blythe Brumleve: 28:59

like we do not accept you. Yeah, exactly. Say, No,

Grace Sharkey: 29:04

they don't have time for whatever you're doing right now. Oh, my God, that's so funny. You know, it's it's tough, because I am excited when you talk about visibility tech in this space. I think it'll be much easier as we move forward to get more insight into like, our supply chains, and be able to say, Hey, this is who I'm buying from. This is where the product's from. It's just, you know, hmm, I want maybe I'll just, let's play men for this one, because at the end of the day, we just need dresses sometimes for events to look good really fast. And if society hadn't put that pressure on women for hundreds of years, maybe she and wouldn't be what it is today. So

Blythe Brumleve: 29:46

I need to actually link in the show.

Unknown: 29:51

That's my concern.

Blythe Brumleve: 29:53

I embarrassingly, like, know very little about, like, the fast fashion. Supply chain. I should know more, but I think a part of me, for a long time did not want to know, because it's almost like, you know where you know when you start asking questions of like, where did the eggs come from? Where does meat come from? And then you start diving into a lot of those different I don't I don't want to know those answers. I just want to be in peace. And it kind of goes back to, like, my earlier point of like, so much of this responsibility is put on the consumers. And so if this responsibility is put on the consumers, there's a certain level of exhaustion that comes into play, where sometimes you want to be really, really morally, a good person, and sometimes you need a dress in two days, it's gonna happen. Some days your morals are gonna be a little bit compromised. And I don't think that, you know, consumers should have the bear that responsibility. You know, all of the time where, like I said earlier, there's the overwhelming the top 100 companies have contributed to more than 70% of emissions since the 1980s and so that's where the blame should be. That's where the change should be. But that YouTube video talked about how, you know, how, where did fast fashion, you know, sort of, where was it born, and when did the concepts of like fashion begin? And, you know, how did they start? You know, replicating outfits. Because before fashion very much, was like you one artist made clothing for one person, and it was somebody who was very well to do Royals, you know, that that sort of market. And it wasn't until the early 1900s that these machines started being industrialized, and that's when fast fashion started. So it was like English countrysides. Apparently, what happened is all these farmers were kicked out of their lands, and like the British UK area, they were kicked off their land, and when they were kicked off their land, they were forced to move into these bigger cities. Well, the bigger cities had all of the factories in it, and so that's where the concept of fast fashion was born. And then when it became like, you know, politically, not good to have those fast fashion factories in the UK area, then they started searching for other areas. So they started searching for other areas of the world to outsource that part of the production. And that's how, you know, fast fashion was born. So it's, I thought it was super interesting that, you know, a lot of those same issues that were developed in one country were just, they knew of them, they knew of these issues, and they still chose to outsource to other countries. And so that's where, like, the onus of, you know, greenwashing comes into play, which is starting to become, you know, more apparent, a lot of food brands will use the phrase like, organic. There's no sort of government regulating body that can determine if something is truly organic or not. It's kind of a marketing ploy. So now we're starting to see this with retailers who are saying like, Oh, sustainably sourced. But then you do a little bit of digging and they're not so sustainably sourced. So one app that I did find that can help you if you are looking to maybe start slowly changing your habits, your purchasing habits, of getting away from, you know, I need the dress in two days to these other brands and and one, one site that you can look this up is called Good for you. And so they will basically go to a brand's website. They have a certain amount of criteria on where the sources come from, what the labor, you know, the what the workers invite, labor, environment looks like, and then, you know, return shipping and how long the guard, you know, what kind of materials are in the stuff that you make, polyester, I heard is one of the worst, I guess, offenders, because they have so much like there was microplastics in their materials, so that when you wear them, they don't last very long. And to your point, earlier, we're buying so much more clothing now, but that clothing isn't lasting as long it's being sent to a landfill, where it's something like a dump truck. Of clothes are burned every second of the day globally, so we're consuming so much more, and polyester materials are a big part of that, and they're getting found in like these deep sea ocean animals, where, like 70% of the animals, and like the the deep sea, have microplastics inside of them, and they think that that's how is, because of these clothings that are made of plastic end up in our water systems. And, you know, it's just a whole chain of events,

Grace Sharkey: 34:35

really crazy. It's, uh,

Unknown: 34:38

I think, I

Grace Sharkey: 34:38

think I had a couple of facts up here too, when I did something in fast fashion, yeah, 60% of most of it's made from the plastic based materials, like you said. And then the text the textile dying actually, 20% of global waste water comes from just the dying process itself. So, oh, wow, yeah, it's a. It's not good for the environment, but it's it's tough because, like you said, like all the average person buys at least 14 items of new clothes every single year. So from what she in, yeah, so at one point are we,

Blythe Brumleve: 35:17

yeah? Where do you? And from that same video, it was they also said the average person buys a new piece of clothing every five days. So if you're buying those pieces of clothing, and they're only lasting maybe two three times that you're gonna wear them, that's where these other companies that are coming in, like the good for you site, where they'll go and they'll analyze all of those things of like, what the brand is saying, sustainability wise, if it's just kind of bullshit, or if they're, you know, actually a good company. So they have a ranking of like, five different, you know, like, avoid, or we support one of the companies that I thought was really cool that probably deserves a little bit of a deep dive. Maybe, you know, an idea for a future point of sale. Episode is SHEIN Inc. They they make wool. So wool is like, apparently, like the superstar, as far as like sustainable fabrics, cotton is next. But, you know, the recyclability of it is a little bit questionable. But wool, apparently, is, is, like the upper echelon of quality fabrics that can be reused and reword for years, and, you know, less of an environmental impact all that good stuff. But this company, SHEIN, Inc, and every purchase you make, they will send you a button with your wool clothing, so you can see the entire supply chain of that product and the impacts that each part of that supply chain. So like and you could also see the SHEIN that your piece of clothing came from.

Grace Sharkey: 36:44

Oh, they're not dead, so, yeah, so they're

Blythe Brumleve: 36:48

still alive. Part of the sustainability,

Grace Sharkey: 36:53

like, oh, wait, yes, no, that's good, good.

Blythe Brumleve: 36:57

But it looked, it looked really cool. My first thought though, because that's always like, I guess where my first thought, though, goes is, okay, these buttons that you're sending, How sustainable are the buttons? So that was sort of like, my first point of like, Hmm, How sustainable are we if we're sending, you know, an electronic device, and that was probably made from plastic. I don't know what the actual button looks like, but I have seen the button in action and the content that they give you, which I think is really interesting, because you can see the entire supply chain, including the SHEIN that your clothing came from.

Grace Sharkey: 37:34

That's interesting. That would be cool to like have. But then again, you're also thinking like, as a buyer, and I'm buying something every five days, at some point, I'm like, Who care?

Blythe Brumleve: 37:44

I did well, the also, the the button, like, the the novelty of it would be so cool for like, five seconds exactly. And then what do you write the button? By

Grace Sharkey: 37:52

storing these buttons somewhere, yeah, like, I

Blythe Brumleve: 37:54

feel like they could probably just maybe send you a link. We're basically tearing this

Grace Sharkey: 37:58

up Shark Tank style right now. We're like,

Blythe Brumleve: 38:03

well, that's actually a perfect segment, or a perfect transition to go into our next segment, which we wanted to talk about the or, wait, I guess I should probably ask any last thoughts on sort of fast fashion, and what do or not do. Or

Grace Sharkey: 38:19

I would say, I think there's, there's other things to consider, too. When you're looking at the fast fashion behemoths out there. IP is one of them. You brought this up right? Like it could a lot of a lot of celebrities and a lot of people have sued these companies are stealing their ideas in different styles and stuff like that. So always consider that right like, are you also hurting the person that came up with this idea? Imagine you came up with this yourself. Are you happy that China is just pushing these things out at no cost to you, really, or them. That's another thing I have with it, but it's also, I think just being being reasonable as a consumer, if you don't like it and you're going to stand up and to the point where you're going to shame someone on Instagram about it, you better not order anything off that site again, right, right. Just talk the talk. Walk the walk. Type of situation, I think is, is big here. I don't think they're going away anytime soon. I think that they could easily make themselves adhere to sec rulings, if there are any, but that's the thing. I don't think we'll see any. So it's kind of like a kickrock situation especially, it really depends, right? We have an election coming up where that could go to,

Blythe Brumleve: 39:46

yeah, pretty well said. So I guess, to be continued, especially in that world. But I'll leave a couple of those helpful links in the show notes. Should you want to, you know, sort of take your, I guess, morality to the next level and start. Searching for, you know, these companies that are trying to do good and they deserve to be supported, because that, that's a really good point you brought up about, you know, some of these smaller designers and creators who are coming up with these different outfit ideas, and then they're getting counterfeited, essentially, which we all know, the counterfeit market in China is ridiculous. There's hardly any kind of laws to protect the Etsy sale sellers have been going through this, even some of the shoppers on Amazon who sell custom items, that is what happens, which is super interesting, is that a lot of these companies will rip off the original design of American companies, and then they'll get all of these other shops, or all of these other fake accounts to try to review bomb or to try to, you know, get takedown notices for the original creator of it. So there's a lot of like, kind of like, I guess, retail warfare that's going on, in addition to, you know, the ethical nature of the where you're buying the products. So there's a whole lot of strings to pull on that discussion. But felt like we needed to defend the logistics girlies out here from getting

Grace Sharkey: 41:10

you know me. Guys, I'm about logistics.

Blythe Brumleve: 41:13

What's funny is that she said logistic. She didn't say that sticks. Yeah, dead, dead guys,

Grace Sharkey: 41:19

I'm about logistic. Oh my god.

Blythe Brumleve: 41:27

I hope you enjoyed this episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight, telling the stories behind how your favorite stuff and people get from point A to B. Subscribe to the show. Sign up for our newsletter and follow our socials over at everything is logistics.com and in addition to the podcast, I also wanted to let you all know about another company I operate, and that's digital dispatch, where we help you build a better website. Now, a lot of the times, we hand this task of building a new website or refreshing a current one off to a coworker's child, a neighbor down the street or a stranger around the world, where you probably spend more time explaining the freight industry than it takes to actually build the dang website. Well, that doesn't happen at Digital dispatch. We've been building online since 2009 but we're also early adopters of AI automation and other website tactics that help your company to be a central place to pull in all of your social media posts, recruit new employees and give potential customers a glimpse into how you operate your business. Our new website builds start as low as$1,500 along with ongoing website management, maintenance and updates starting at $90 a month, plus some bonus freight, marketing and sales content similar to what you hear on the podcast. You can watch a quick explainer video over on digitaldispatch.io, just check out the pricing page once you arrive, and you can see how we can build your digital ecosystem on a strong foundation. Until then, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll see you all real soon and go Jags you.